DRG, DB – or something else?

, von Friedhelm Weidelich (Kommentare: 13)

The heart of Gauge 1 beats in Germany. Gauge 1 has been made popular by Märklin.

I'm not sure if these phrases are true. But in fact German prototype models in 1/32 scale dominate the market. Are you happy with that? Would you prefer something different?

Despite the language barriers spur1info has around 20% foreign readers from all over the world. There are no problems for readers in Switzerland, Austria, Luxemburg and the Netherlands to follow my articles in German. Today, I would like to put a question to foreign readers in English. I would like to provoke you to make your point of view clear:

1. What do you think about the strategy of the German based manufacturers/importers focusing on German prototype models? Obviously, there is a saturated gauge 1 market in Germany.

2. Are you happy with running Deutsche Bundesbahn models on your Dutch, Danish, French, Belgian, Czech, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Russian or ..... layout?

3. How would you evaluate the gauge 1 market in your country?

4. What would you like to see as a 1/32 model?

5. What kind of prototype would you like to model? Modern railways or the state railways from the 30ies to the 70ies?

Please use the Kommentar function below or write an e-mail to info AT spur1info.de

I am curious about your ideas and the way you see our hobby.

Natürlich sind auch deutschsprachige Beiträge willkommen, wenn Sie mit dem auf DRG und DB (Ep. III/IV) fokussierten Spur-1-Angebot unzufrieden sind.

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Kommentar von Rudy Van Raemdonck |

Hello Mr. Weidelich,

Nice to see message in English for once, although I consider reading your posts in German is a good excercise to sharpen my German a bit :-)

I switched to 'Spur 1' just a year ago, so I do not have a lot of experience yet. Still these are my anwers to/opinions on your questions:

1. Focus on German prototypes

In HO I was collecting Belgian locomotives and rolling stock, mainly focusing on goods transport. Looking at the offering for Gauge 1, I turned to German material, located in Baden-Württemberg and limited to Ep3. One because I very much like steam and Diesel locs, two, because my first gauge 1 model I bought was a 'Badische Kittel' from Fine Models. So the choice of country and era came a bit by accident.

2. Running German models on your layout

One has always the freedom to match his layout with the rolling stock (country, era). Of course having the possibility to make a layout as it has or could have existed in your own country (Belgium in my case) has the advantage that you can more easily find historic material or go out and photograph railway installations or remainders of it, without having to travel far.
In my case I have to rely on literature, the internet and the great Gauge 1 community in Germany, who is always willing to help or give information and tips. If there is an opportunity, I do not hesitate to go to Baden-Württemberg, but of course the occasions are limited.

3. Gauge 1 market in Belgium

I think the interest in Gauge 1 in Belgium is growing. Perhaps not as much as for Gauge 0, but still there is a positive trend. The model railway club I am a member of for instance, know has taken the initiative to also build a Gauge 1 layout. Great!

On the other hand the Gauge 1 market is still very small in Belgium, mainly because we are also a small country and most model railroaders have HO gauge.

4. What would I like to see as a Gauge 1 model?

Currently I have no special requests. As you said in your post, the German market is saturated, so lots too choose from.

If I may make a comment here: the bigger problem is the availability of models. Many of them are sold out even before they become available.

5. Which type of layout

Definitely state railways between '30 and '70 for me. Main reasons: use of steam traction, shorter trains possible (a 'must' if you want to have a realistic layout at home).

Finally, let me make use of this opportunity to thank you for maintaining this website and feeding us almost daily with Gauge 1 news. Keep up the good work!

Kommentar von Martin Meiburg |

Hello Friedhelm,
interesting theme, not only for foreign readers! I don't believe, that the german market ist saturated. Perhaps while concentrating on loco's, but when I look specially to freight cars, then I have the impression, that the railway scene is dominated by german models. That's a pity; a look to pictures of the 70's and 80's show, that in every freight train there where a lot of "foreign" cars of associated railway administrations. Thanks to the RIV it was (and is?) a free interchange between DB and all other administrations possible. So I personnally miss french, dutch, swiss or similar freight cars. Sometimes it is even only a variant of a DB type (because in fact it is a RIV standardized type)with foreign inscriptions. This could be a new field of sales also for the model manufacturers.
Martin Meiburg

Kommentar von newfield60 |

Hello Friedhelm,
For me as an Austrian citizen you are touching a point of weakness of the dominating German suppliers. Quite a lot of models having been on offer since the last 5 years - the time frame I am personally concentrating on 1 gauge – have been qualified for an Austrian variation as well.
Bad thing about it: Close to zero Austrian versions were offered. Only KM-1 and Wunder do it every now and then…
If there wouldn’t be the extra committed “Spur1 Locomotive Manufactory Austria” we could find ourselves on the dead end track.
I share your thoughts about developing the market in the surroundings of Germany by offering the cars and locos in foreign versions as well – and I believe Mr. Krug’s latest initiative of including CFL versions and ÖBB/BBÖ versions of the BR42 has shown that it will work. The earlier companies will jump on the bandwagon, the better they will develop their own business.
Peter Krenn

Kommentar von Michel Vermout |

Dear Mr Weidelich,
1. The strategy of the German producers seems me dangerous for themselves: the German 1:32 market is saturated and there is a real risk of value-destroying competition between them.
2. I am not fully satisfied when running DB models on my layout, but I have no choice!
3. As Mr Van Raemdonck says, the market today is very limited, but there is a real potential of growth, certainly if some non-DB models are made available.
4. A nice model of a Belgian Nohab diesel (52/53/54 series) would make me very happy but would also make a lot of sense from a commercial risk perspective: Nohab diesels have been running in a lot of European countries.
5. I definitely prefer to run models of state-owned companies of the 1950-1970 period: more various models, traditional colors, short trains, etc...
Thanks a lot for this questionnaire!

Antwort von Friedhelm Weidelich

@ALL

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Two readers from Belgium, one from Austria. How about Dutch, Danish, Italian and readers from other countries? What do you think? What do you expect?

tl_files/bilder/Vorbild2/_7222090.jpg@ Mr Vermout: I happened to shoot a Nohab near Singen, Southwest Germany. A type of engine a lot of people would love. There is one from Proform with more versions to come, but at a higher price level (4212 €). 

 

Kommentar von Michel Vermout |

Dear Mr Weidelich,
Thanks for this nice shot! Regarding the Proform models, the problem is not only the price, but also the minimum curve radius which is not compatible with the most common 1020 mm.
Among other producers, Märklin had put a lot of various versions of Nohabs on the market in the HO scale. Let's hope that one day they will do the same in scale 1...

Kommentar von Søren V., Denmark |

Dear Friedhelm Weidelich

How great of you to ask those questions the other day from us non-german followers of your great site.

I have actually been meaning to write to you for a long time so I could help with some crowd funding for your excellent and informative site. Please send me your bank details so I can support your project. Being a graphic designer, I enjoy the aesthetics of your photography, which is consistently well composed and clear and a joy to follow.

I was born in the late sixties, and grew up with Märklin and long evenings with my dad with E19, E44, Uerdinger, Schürzen-tin-wagons and off course the danish, swedish and swiss models.

We also had a very large collection of Wrenn, Hornby and Bachmann where I have always been in love with the LNER Sir Nigel Gresley design of the A4 etc.

We had a huge collection - and it started a joy that is still there very much - it just turned very expensive when I left HO : )

And very international. I have always thought it rather provincial just to care about local stuff, so when I discovered Gauge One 12 years ago and fell in love with a Hübner E94 it had to be in the original colourscheme from llc, and that has sort of started me building a rather large ( and heavy ) collection of KM 1, Kiss, Märkiin, Spur-1.at, Dingler, all for mainline work from 1948 until 1953. ( So I can mix pre-war streamlined beauties with early Bundesbahn. )

Offcourse I have 2 danish models, made in very small numbers, but I am actually fine about german pre and post war rolling stock, and really enjoy the researching and have quite a large german library about it all. So for me a part of collecting is actually the german connection.

But it is great to see that more swiss models are comming out in the middle prize range ( Kiss ) and I hope that some pre-war swiss models will also come to the market. And off course if somebody did Danish or Swedish models in KM1 quality I would be there if it was a design I liked.

You ask if I dream of something, and yes - I really do. CIWL Wagon-Lits and dinning coaches from before and after the war would be a great supplement to the Mitropa wagons that märkiin put out - and I keep on dreaming about those coming out. They are missing in my life - and I still remember when my dad was wawing from them on Copenhagen Central, going with the Nord Express down through germany to Paris before crappy airlines ruined traintravel in DK. I do not know if the manufactures are to nationalistic to produce an international coach or why no one of the good companies have done that.
There are some shiny english ones I saw in Sinsheim but that was it.

You ask about Gauge one in DK. A couple of clubs. I am not a member - I enjoy my home layout as a rest from deadline design work - but there is a following, which is great. And some production of limited editions. It’s ok – because there is a lot of HO danish models. I am fine with the german/swiss/austrian angle for my Gauge 1.

Please keep on your great site !

Kommentar von Carel Senten |

Dear Mr. Weidelich,

Thank you for opening this discussion. I follow your website for a few months and I have to say it is very interesting.
I am a live steamer in gauge one.

Indeed there is a lot of German spur 1 on the market, but there is also a lot of English gauge one. An interesting website is www. G1MRA.com of the English gauge one association.
Personally I like to see a Dutch steam locomotive, but I realise that the market in the Netherlands is very/to small, so we have to accept we run German, Swiss, English or American engines.
Kind regards,
Carel Senten

Kommentar von Cor de Jong |

Dear Friedhelm,

Thank you for this discussion. Every day I visit your website for more gauge 1 news and interesting discussions.

After my H0 period I started with the 1:43,5 0 gauge building English models based on the GWR prototype. It's a whole story but at my website www.blokpost-nul.nl there is more about this subject. The interesting part of the English 0 gauge you can buy almost everything to build a correct model for the period you are modelling. For me the period I model is 1900-1910. I love to build models for this period. And I am still in the O gauge.

Three years ago I went into gauge 1 impressed by the KM1 and KISS models. These models are not realy cheap but they will fit in my budget. In gauge 1 I choose for the DRG period before WW2. So my wish is more models based on this period.

For my 750 mm narrow gauge part of the railway we need DRG freight wagons and coaches. The beautifull KM1 DRG Tssd BR99-633 needs to pull a freight or passengers train.

And as a finescale gauge 1 modeller I hope the new supplier for the Hosenträger railsystem will be up and running in a short time. For my 1:32 finescale railway under construction I need tracks and points.

As a Dutchman I am modelling in 0 gauge English GWR standard gauge and G.W.R broad gauge and in gauge 1 German DRG standard and 750mm narrow gauge.

Kind regards,

Cor de Jong

Kommentar von Paulo Thrige |

Hi Friedhelm, nice of you to put out this survey and it would be impolite not to answer so that I’ll do. But first a little background base on my own collection: Of 24 locomotives only one is Danish (Frichs Køf made in only 25 units in brass all unique); the rest are mostly German and some Swiss (mixed Märklin, KM1, Kiss, Wunder). Of 46 wagons only one is Danish (Märklin) but I’ve had some handmade Danish wagons that didn’t fit my locomotives. I like most époques except Ep1 (too old for me).

1. Not a problem. Some fine models are still missing or should be made in a new lot (some in better quality and some at lower price).

2. As a child I ran German, Danish and Swiss trains on my H0 layout and that’s what I do today in 1. And the trains I see today in Denmark are both Danish and German. Many cargo wagons are German and daily I see ICE-TD and DB-Schenker cargo trains (BR185, EG3100)

3. Difficult to answer but my guess would be around 200 persons (men!!) that collect 1 model trains. About 30 are engaged in different clubs. A good Danish model should be able to sell 30-50 units (conservative guess).

4. My preferred list: Frichs Litra E (have been made by Bockholt but are insane expensive), EG3100 (DSB GODS blue livery and DB-Schenker red livery) and of cause the Nohab (have no idea how many liveries that exist/have existed, but it’s many), MZ (successor to Nohab), EA3000 (Denmark/Bulgaria), ME (successor to MZ).
On the wagon side my list is like this: Habbins (KM1 Classic quality/price), Bcm (sleeping cars based on German wagons), Litra B (DSB passenger wagon), Abs + Bk III (doppelstockwagen – DSB and DB livery), Litra CM (DSB).

5. I like the modern rail but as I wrote in the beginning I run Ep2 and onwards.

And thanks for your site. Love the high quality photos and the news!

Best Regards,
Paulo Thrige

Kommentar von herbert beranek |

hello,

I build layout after SNCF prototype in 1950 and later and I am missing diesel and electric locs, waggons and cars, also CIWL and Inox cars would be nice.

It is OK for me to use DB waggons on the SNCF tracks.

Best regards,

Herbert Beranek

Kommentar von Paulo Thrige |

Dear Herbert Beranek, I think you are absolutely right: CIWL and Inox would also suite me. :-D

Best Regards,
Paulo Thrige

Denmark

Kommentar von Carsten Ramcke |

Hallo Friedhelm,

Greetings from the USA. Thank you for asking this question. It's very interesting to read the opinions and observations from other countries! Here are some of my own opinions to your inquiry for the United States:

1) I will focus on Marklin because in 1:32 they are far and away the market leader for trains in the USA. As you know, back in the Maxi days there were several 1-scale models of North American prototype. I think the last American model was a flatcar in 2006. But with Marklin's takeover of LGB it made sense to not 'cannibalize' the LGB following with 1:32 models. In terms of their strategy, they have never really understood the U.S. market, and this counts for all gauges. Their models are horrendously overpriced when purchased through a U.S. dealer, in my opinion. Most of the 'hardcore' modelers who run Marklin have a dealer or two in Germany they rely on, since it remains cheaper to purchase from Germany and pay the shipping costs than it is to purchase here in the USA from Walthers, the official importer. In terms of American models, I don't think Marklin will ever be competitive in 1-scale. In H.O. scale and Z-scale their paint schemes, details and historical accuracy of models has been poor, and there are companies like MTH that simply do it better and cheaper, with better technology and attention to detail and accuracy.

2) Since my layout is Deutsche Bundesbahn, I can't speak to this. I have loved European (mainly German) trains since my childhood. I know many, many 'Modelleisenbahner' in the USA who also prefer the German prototypes over any other nation. There is even a national organization, European Train Enthusiasts (www.ete.org) that specializes in European trains. In the Detroit area alone we have over 40 members.

3) For garden railroads, I think we are the 'market leader'. Even for German prototype there are a good number of Spur Einser, not just 'Spur G-er'. I know of several dozen that are big fans of Marklin, but also KM-1, Kiss, and others. Some will no longer purchase Marklin because of old technology and poor quality, but that's a discussion for another post of yours!

4. I would like to see an affordable version of the Akku-triebwagen 515/815, ETA/ESA 150. Yes, I know Fine Models makes one, but I paid less money for my daughter's car than they want for that model! I think an affordable model should be relatively easy to produce. I would also love to see Marklin make shortened 'Silberlinge' for all of us who already have the shortened D-zug wagen.

5. When I was a small boy I would visit my grandmother in Koenigstein / Ts. near Frankfurt. Every morning I would run down to the train station and wait for the trains to come in - Esslinger triebwagen, BR212's and 218's pulling and pushing silverlings in and out of the station, plus the occasional Dampflok for Pfingsten and Burgfest. I was thirteen. It was the greatest summer ever. So it stands to reason that my Spur 1 dream is to recreate a little of that line from Hoechst to Koenigstein.

Next summer there will be a sort of 'Spur 1 Treffen' in San Francisco as part of a European train show. I will know much more about the level of interest in European 1:32 scale models after I attend, and will be happy to write a report.

mfG,

Carsten Ramcke
Michigan, USA

Kommentar von elk hartmann |

Hello all,
If you just look at the current situation, you are right. In particular the German manufacturers limit their roaster to german prototypes. Why ? Difficult to say, may be they think, they cannot sell enough to get to the point to make profit? On the other hand the number of german models/prototypes is limited. What are they going to do, when last interesting and well known german model has been built? Going bankrupt..?
But it was not always like that, going just a bit back in time you find companies such as J&M or Wilag or Fulgurex. Some may not exist anymore, but their models are still there. If you want them you can find them second hand, still in good shape and not cheap. Which leads to the impression, that non german models are still wanted. But may be, not so widely known. If this assumption is correct, then current companies can pave the way to their future existence by widening their model ranges. For example think about the models from our neighbors in France: what about building a well known French Chapelon 2-4-0 steam locomotive or freight engines such as the 141 P. I for myself really enjoy running my Chapelon Pacific in front of a good consistent of French Fleche D or coaches. Just to name one example. There are of course many other alternatives you can think of. Fulgurex / Aster in their heydays did just that and successful I guess.
So, a sort of gradual move into this direction, supported by making more information available on foreign engines and rolling stock may lead to more diversity in our little Gauge 1 world. It a can start with Magazines, print and online generating more interest …..let s see what happens…
best regards e.hartmann